Selando, Rafael: Stop blaming me for it’s part of TCK syndrome | TCKID 2.0

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Selando, Rafael: Stop blaming me for it’s part of TCK syndrome

Sorry to post a forum here, but I couldn’t post a reply…
~~~~~~~~~

Quote from Rafael:
“Further, “Believe me, TCKid CAN be close-minded too!!”
… I don’t like that – you know why?”

You just don’t give me a chance!
Uh! Maybe I am not good at language and expressing myself, but let me try again!
I said “TCKid CAN be close-minded” in this sense:
It is possible for you to find a close-minded TCKid
and NOT:
I have the right to be close-minded
The way I used the word “Can” means “happens to be”
NOT “having the right”
You get me now?!
SECONDLY
Many TCKids agree with me, that it’s very normal for TCKs to like their homecountry ppl LEAST (Just ask Akli! (Sorry Akli for betraying you) but he confessed so to me… And there are many TCKs that resist (somehow) their homecountry ppl)
This is one of our TCKness! And happens to many of us!
You can’t judge us just bc “you” don’t have this part of the TCKness problem!
THIRDLY!
Obviously I don’t hate every Taiwanese “in personal” alright!?
I hate their mentality! (The general mentality!)
And I am having a hard time recently with many of them.
If you just have more concern of my situation right now, you may not be so “picky” on my way of expression with English here…
FORTHLY……………………..
An enemy of my friend can’t be my friend
Really depends on in what sense?
Sometimes ppl become enemies due to too personal reasons
Don’t u think it is closed minded to follow that rule “without exceptions” What about two friends of yours become enemies after you had made friends with them both? I wouldn’t like quarrel between them to happen… but, I would keep trying to be friend with them both, if I don’t have “personal issue” with either of them… (Off topic…..)

Fifthly,

EXACTLY! You know why I dislike that girl’s attitude?
Just as YOU SAID!

We TCKids have seen the world, we “Should” be more open-minded

So, in “my” opinion, she got the chance to live in a foreign country (and she stayed there for MANY years, and complains about how bad Nicaraguans are to me ALL DA TIME…)

In “my” opinion, it would be better “for herself” to try to see the good part of Nicaraguans

She discriminated Nicaraguans bc they were poorer and not as smart as her…

I discriminate Taiwanese ppl when “they” discriminate

The only thing I don’t like about Taiwanese mentality is when they discriminate ppl different from them

I actually don’t do that.

I don’t discriminate ppl only bc they “barely different” but WHEN they don’t like me “just bc I am different from them”

IF they don’t do that, I am FINE with them.

Believe me, that girl had contempt toward Nicas bc she thought they were darker skinned, poorer AND less intellingent (Cauze Asians are good at math…)

I dislike THESE attitude of her!
I don’t like her bc she has THESE attitudes

When I was in Nica, many Taiwanese (bc we were richer) treated those Nicas workers SO poorly!

I dislike that kinda attitude!

I NEVER treat Taiwaneses poorly! I just dislike those who have THOSE attitudes!

It IS Different!

~~~~

BONUS

When I was in Nicaragua, I liked Taiwaneses

(I can’t explain, but a more eloquent writer did it for me: let me quote it (It is actually a site posted by not sure… Brice? here at TCKid

http://attilapelit.blogspot.com/2007/12/neither-here-nor-there-diplobratic.html Please read this. Or just read the quote I chose(Please stop blaming me for my bitterness towards Taiwanese is the EXACT same as this writer express! It’s the Exact Same Sentiment!! Just change “Turkey” to “Taiwan”!!):

“In other words, nationalism is too close to the bone at home where there’s no distance in which to conveniently lose sight of all the icky quotidian details that can be filled instead with a more glamorous and ideal “Turkishness.”

It follows naturally, then, that when diplobrats are abroad, their nationalistic tendencies grow and their Turkishness suddenly becomes something cherished, something contrary to what is felt in Turkey. This sense of nationalism is usually ideational and ideal rather than something concrete or proactive. In other words, the nationalism of the diplobrat when abroad is a wholly selfish one that seeks to alleviate personal dilemmas rather than take any real action for the sake of a truly inspired goal. Thus this nationalist feeling is more of an affectation than a truly inspired belief, and it serves various functions, namely: 1) Something to belong to and be proud of in the face of one’s Otherness abroad, 2) An illusion that you belong to something greater than your sorry little individual self – a great history, a great country, a great culture, all of which seems that much greater the further you actually are geographically from that history, country and culture, and 3) The convenience of “Textual Nationalism”, i.e. the history and grandeur of your nation and country always seems that much greater, clearer and more easily digestible and believable on paper, as simulacra, be it in texts, maps or on screen(s). In other words, when you’re looking at a map of the Ottoman Empire in 1689 or a photo of a squadron of Turkish-built F-16s, you don’t see beggars, you don’t see gecekondu’s, and you certainly don’t see a 4-foot-5 public servant with a limp and a mole on her nose asking you for fifty passport-size photos and a notary-certified copy of a copy of a copy of your high school diploma signed by the sub-assistant-under-over-director of the Department of Time and Paper Waste so you can apply to be considered for possible enrolment at a university or something. In short, it’s a convenient kind of nationalism. ”

I guess I wouldn’t resist Tw ppl this much is I WASN’T a Twnese myself!

The thing is this: Many Tw ppl dislike TCK Taiwaneses (like me). They think I am privileged and that I do not deserve having what they didn’t have. They don’t like it bc we are both from the same contries but got different lives. HOWEVER, Many of them LOVE real foreigners (whites) and treat “them” completely different as they treat us!

This is what I dislike about them!

Many of my TCK Taiwanese friends had agreed with me, regular Tw ppl treat real (white) foreigners way better than Taiwanese TCKs like us…

And they also disregard darker skin foreigners (NOT ALL! But this kind of mentality does happen and not that rarely!!)

I dislike Taiwanese mainly for “these reasons”

Some have low self-esteem and think ppl who can speak English fluently are better (But if they are white, some think they deserve the respect, but if ur Asian, same as them, then they hate you… (Again, SOME, not “all”! But not few either!) They think u don’t deserve “better” education (I mean, the chance to learn English when “they” did not…

But I mean… having had the chance was NOT our “fault” either!

But many regular Taiwanese ppl “do that” to me (us!)

And finally it reaches a point that they are driving me nuts…

Repatriation hurts more u know?

I don’t know ’bout you two!!~~

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Posted by anonymoustck at 11:07 am on March 21st, 2009. Comments
Categories: General Forum.

  • anonymoustck
    @Danau

    Thank you so much for ur helpful comments!!!!

    My parents r themselves one of the worst local Taiwanese that ever have to deal with!!!

    Trust me, parents MATTER A LOT!!!
  • danau
    Hi Zoe, from the looks of it, you seem to be having a hard time dealing two things: racism & repatriation. Racism in the forms of 'Asians thinking whites are better' and the Taiwanese you know 'thinking people who are poor and darker are inferior'. I know exactly what you mean with both of that. I've seen it happening around me too. And I understand the intense anger you feel when people don't see this or say it's not true. I've experienced it too. And I also understand that when we're angry like this, we can end up making sweeping statements (when we don't actually literally mean 'everybody').

    And you seem to be having a really bad case of repatriation. Going to an unfamiliar culture that you can't relate to and don't particularly like, but having to accept it as your own. It sounds like major culture shock. You're basically a foreigner in your own country, though you may not look it.

    I don't really have a solution for either, but just thought I'd say that I understand - especially the first one.
  • Zoe
    @Senlando

    Although I dislike being a foreigner, being a foreigner is all I know, and I can't stand being a "hidden immigrant". Truthfully I believe I could live in almost any country in the world except my passport country.

    Oh! This is the exact same thing with me!!!
    Me too!
    "Although I dislike being a foreigner, being a foreigner is all I know"!!! "and I can't stand being a "hidden immigrant"!!!

    Me TOO!!!!!!!

    I couldn't stand being a foreigner after 6 yrs, but being a "hidden immigrant" is even worse!!! I can't stand it anymore after 9 months!!!!

    ~~~

    I guess I was just "hurt"

    (And mad about my own situation...) (Although mad at the ppl when we don't undestand each other!!.....................)

    The exact reason why I am on TCKid this often recently is that I am having a terrible time recently

    I am shutting myself down from ppl I know in real life (local Tw ppl who sorround me ~><~)

    (I need some rest. To reflect... to just cool down a bit...)

    I am having especially a hard time bc I really need therapy but neither of my parents understand TCKids at all!
    (They have NO idea and wouldn't believe anything)

    I am still waiting until I can communicate with them.

    Another reason I have such anger towards monocultural Taiwaneses is that I see my parents on them! For I always hate my parents' way of being and values since little...

    And they were the only two real Taiwanese I had had a close look at.... when I was younger, I did not know the real Tw ppl... so I never knew my parents were just "typical Taiwaneses"

    I always thought that my parents had the "strangest" mentality of the world, means: different from what I learned from school, teachers, classmates, media, local ppl abroad...............

    It was until last yr (trust me= =) when I finally found out that not only my parents were weird (but a whole nation is weird... ok ok this was only my "impression", but a strong one......... Anyways........) but on the other hand....

    I finally can (even) see that my parents are (actually) "normal"....

    Just......... well, I still think they are weird! |||||

    Let us agree to disagree if you disagree...........

    ~~~~

    How old are both of you?
  • Senlando
    I don't really have much time to write much write now, since i have a 8 page research assignment due tomorrow (wish me luck!). but Rafael seems to have said much of what i would like to say anyways.

    Zoe, we're not trying to attack you personally, and I agree with almost everything your saying. Then only thing i disagree with, is when you make sweeping remarks about people. Remember I spent 18 years of my life in Taiwan as a minority, I know how racist "SOME" people can be. And I understand what your going through, I've been in my parents passport country of 4 years now, and can barely stand it. I've given up on dating since i find i can not relate at all to Canadian girls, or people in general for that mater. I barely have any friends (because my idea of having a good time, isn't getting hammered drunk). In fact from the first day of my arrival, my goal has been to leave as soon as possible.
    Although I dislike being a foreigner, being a foreigner is all I know, and I can't stand being a "hidden immigrant". Truthfully I believe I could live in almost any country in the world except my passport country. Although I dislike living in Canada, i don't blame the people. I realize it is "I" who doesn't belong here, and by complain about it, really doesn't help make any more friends.

    You might never love Taiwan, and if in a few years you realize you really can't adapt (like i realize i really can't adapt to Canada, or the western world), I would encourage you to find a country where you are somewhat comfortable (I say somewhat because I think it is almost impossible for TCKs to feel fully comfortable anywhere).

    But please realize as I have, sweeping statements of dislike towards a whole culture, really doesn't get people to wanting to be your friend.

    ops I wrote to much already, need to get started on that paper, so that i can graduate someday and get out of this frozen wasteland and move back to the tropics where i belong.
  • rafael
    lol - Department of Time and Paper waste... so true!! The article you suggested is very good.

    Zoe(come on, log in or at least put your name at the end of your post).
    So, Zoe, thank you very much for this post.
    I really am not trying to discredit the reasons for the way you feel, please know that. I entirely agree to what you said about why you feel the way you do... I'm trying to get you to think about the way you deal with those emotions.
    When I wrote my post, that you wrote this reply to, I wasn't aware of the intensity with which you are experiencing the TCK-locals conlict. Your last post in "Do u ppl get mad when monos disrespect ur TCKness?" got that aspect across to me. I might have answered differently if I had known that beforehand.


    I'm also a repatriate at the moment, and I've never been so dis-attached from "society" around me as here(ironically in the city where part of my family has grown up - now for a third generation). I've been here for 2 years now, and I'm only getting the hang of it very, very slowly. We're all TCKs, and most of us have had very intense experiences with abuse due to that fact - you're not alone. Its very difficult for all of us.


    In the long run getting angry at locals isn't going to make anything better for you - you can't win emotionally with them. There are many more of them than of us, and they're pretty convinced of their experiences... I don't expect to ever be understood by any except maybe a handfull of them.

    In your posts you write about either locals or that girl - the problem being, it is extreemly difficult to change the way they think let alone act. I think its possible to change them, but I haven't figured it out yet, so I take it to be impossible for the time being. All of us should know though, that it isn't such a miracle, to change yourself. We've all done it when we've moved to our new place of living. You learn, that there are certain things that you can't influence, so you just leave them alone.
    IN the long run, you can only depend on yourself, and the way you learn to deal with your surroundings. At times it does get lonely, but that is one of the reasons we are here for eachother on TCKid.com. I've always enjoyed and related to your posts; I do care and wish that you feel secure. This is just my advice based on my experience.
    Don't go by the rule: "an eye for an eye" - that has never made anyone's life better. In my experience it only spawns bitterness and hatred in an endless downward spiral. If someone hurts you, learn from it, and be smarter and stronger next time, so that you don't get hurt again. In my eyes - that is how you become a better person to yourself as well as others.
    This only works to counter moderate(and mostly unconscious) agressiveness though - when I find that a person really consciously tries to hurt me, I avoid that person in every possible manner, but I've rarely made that experience, and those people were usually a menace to others around them as well.

    I guess what I'm trying to say, is that the locals would do better, if they knew better... but they don't, and I can't blame them for that. I can't blame them for the way they think, if that is what their environment led them to. Most people go with the flow(as did we in a certain way), and I don't blame them for that. That's just the way it is - the status quo that I have to learn to live with.
  • Akli
    I smile every time I read this kind of post.
    Not that I hate having been to European/North American schools, but what I was taught there was very different from what I actually experienced. I was taught that everyone should talk to me with respect, that I had rights, that going up the social ladder was possible with productive work and that Church and state were two separate entities. People in my country expect me to conform to different laws, that going up the ladder is done through ways of corruption, that I can be treated like a piece of shit, and that dating or eating certain foods or acting certain ways was contrary to religious law, therefore to law. If I were brought up learning those values, I would readily accept them.
    Now when someone returns to his country, people expect him to conform to the local laws, and because he/she's a citizen of that country, that he should know all the laws by heart and abide by them.
    In my case, whenever I move to a different country, I usually see the advantages of the new laws and the disadvantages of the old laws. When I went to my country, at first I was happy people I barely knew were buying me coffee and chatting with me. But after a few months, I realized that in terms of mentality I was outlawed and that there were certain things I would never accept. Another factor is CNN. To me, what's good for CNN is good for me, and what's bad for CNN is bad for me. 55 million people watch and are influence by CNN in the world, and CNN reflects a Western version of the reality of the world. I don't think western is best, but to most cultures, even those who hate the west the most, west is best. but to western culture, anything non-western sucks. So should I please the whole world, or just my people? Do I go with family or friends? Sorry, if I were part of a royal family I would choose family, but that's not the case so I choose friends.
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