The War of the Cultures
Hi
Sorry to clog up the board with more of my personal same-issues. But i’m STILL (!) struggling with the concept of possible belonging to three cultures when society pressures you to belong to one.
I was at a foreign language bookshop today with my friends and a friend was saying how her mother (who i think, works for Allicane Français) is looking for young female assistants who speak French and that she could ask her mum to interview me if my French is good enough. She then asked me how it was. I replied by saying that i can walk into a store and hold a conversation and people do not know that i am not French.
Then i shrugged and said “Y’know, just like i can be here in Australia and i can pass off as an Aussie.” I said it without thinking, half concentrating on the conversation and half on the books. There was a silence broken by my exclamation of “Ooohh! Look - Tintin!” And a friend saying “What do you mean you can ‘pass off’ as being an Aussie? I mean — hello!”
And then, there it was again. My three cultures warring inside me. I did not know what to say. I did not have the words, the vocabulary, the means by which to make them *understand* how i can be so conflicted.
I do not *feel* Australian. But i know that when i am overseas i realise that some part of me is culturally Australian. I get the humour, the social cues within the different social classes. I can’t even articulate how i am so different, even to myself.
I don’t feel comfortable enough to say that i am only from Australia, because i always see myself one step behind everyone else. I don’t feel comfortable enough to say that i solely American because my accent will betray me as will my lack of knowledge of one of my ‘hometowns’ - Los Angeles. I hate the fact that the American holidays mean virtually nothing to me.
With Mauritius, my mother always made sure that we spoke French and could speak wih our relations. She fostered a love of the country in me. But i went further. Even at the age of 8 and especially again at 13 i realised that Mauritius has been the one ‘constant’ in my life — which is partly why i feel so connected to it, apart from the fact that my family lives there. Between the moves - from the US to Australia we always returned there.
-
I was reading about being a ‘hidden immigrant’ in the TCK book.
I was wondering if it is possible to be one both inside and outside your passport/home countries? For example, i identify with other cultures when i am in Australia but when i am outside of Australia i dentify partly with Australian culture?
Any comments? Thoughts? Shared experiences?
Related Posts
19 Comments to “The War of the Cultures”
February 5th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Oh, absolutely- I completely agree there’s this stigma with people not understanding that you don’t come from anywhere- and then, when they are still uncomfortable with the fact, they just brush it off with ‘well, where were you born?’ or ‘what’s your passport?’, which suddenly neatly puts you as someone who watches ‘home and away’ 5 days a week and eats vegemite.
Sorry to rant, but I really think the non-TCK community has a lot to answer for in the depression stakes.
If they read our bio’s on the back of a book, they’re inclined to coo and say ‘how exotic’, but then when confronted with a r/l TCK, they just knock you back or down… All we can console ourselves is ‘well, we do know better’ and skulk off.
We have to remember that our lack of being part of the society we’re in is actually a product of us not socialising with TCK’s. Could you imagine your friends in a room full of TCKs?
Who’d be the nutjob then?
Keep the faith- it’s really not bad being a TCK, but it takes extraordinary patience and education- but try to keep with the flock just to remind yourself you’re not alone…
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Hey
Thanks for the reply. I’m usually okay with it, it just hits me sometimes.
Speaking of Home and Away, i have only ever watched one full episode and i had no idea what was going on.
All i got was that Bec Cartwright - Lleyton Hewitt’s wife — was abducted by some cult and her bf as he was searching for her said the most terrible line “When you love someone you just know what to do!.” That has stayed in my memory all these years. Whoa — great going Australia!
Besides, i only ever knew Neighbours.
Speaking of Begemite… it is said that those raised on it love it and that the ‘foreigners’ when they come here hate it. I hated it throughout my childhood and it is only recently that i can eat it albeit sparingly — on toast with lots of butter! My mother however, did not grow up with it and loves it.
And licorice… i adore!
Man, i would LOVE to get my friends in a room full of TCKs. We’d all be abbreviating everything — “Oh, you’re TCK? Me too!So are you an MK or what?”
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 3:47 am
It’s a pain in the ass when you have to watch what you say with your own friends. In the long run you kind of learn to avoid saying certain things just so you don’t create these ’situations’, but it just builds a wall between your friend and you.
*sigh*
By the way I’m a Vegemite eater because I picked it up while when I was living in New Zealand. Most of my friends think that it’s like rubbing dog turd on your toast and eating it…so I naturally avoid having it when people can’t cope with eating it - just like I do with lots of other types of food.
I mean can you really enjoy eating something when other people at the table are giving you these ‘looks’? But I’m a TCK and can adjust to most food habits around the world so I just eat whatever isn’t offensive to the people around me at the time
Sorry I went off in a tangent. This thread wasn’t about Vegemite lol
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 7:56 am
isa i feel you! for a long time most if not all of my friends were tck for this very purpose. or i would not talk about my tcks experiences in front of non tcks.
for me its always the language thing. why and how can i not speak my ‘mother tongue’ fluently. there are many reasons that i can give that may make sense to the person asking, but the fact of the matter is, i speak it well enough to get by and really it doesn’t bother me that i am not fluent. i lived in ethiopia for 7 years and have lost all my amhara, and yet no one gives me shit about that. i hate the assumption that because i hold a passport to this country i have to follow all the (imaginary) rules and regulations. cizens come in all shpaes and colours, global village blah, blah, blah…get used to it!!!
so yeah, i can still have my moments of utter defensiveness, because when folks don’t understand you they can get offensive. when people are so set in their ways that if you are aussie, you have to be A, B and C and when you admit to not feeling that, they get offended. what is that?
anywho, yes, i have had mono friends in a room full of tcks, luckily my mono friends are very cool, most of them travellers and very open minded. but once i had this mono boyfriend who couldn,t deal with it and would spend the whole time in a corner sulking into his beer or something. what fun!
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 8:55 am
I’ve had the odd experience of that. Right now I’m surrounded by, if not TCKs, relatively international people, so they’re quite happy to call me “that guy from everywhere”, even though a lot of people are like that here.
Though now and then, a friend visits Europe from the US, and they visit me if they get the opportunity. So far that’s happened twice. One girl came to visit me in Zurich, and met my internationalized family, and was surprised. The other met my family, and a CCK friend who came to Zurich with me that weekend.
It’s actually a little sad to watch how little they might have to say when people who are really aware of international things are all talking. Because you know that they’re good people despite short horizons.
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
“I do not *feel* Australian. But i know that when i am overseas i realise that some part of me is culturally Australian. I get the humour, the social cues within the different social classes.”
That’s exactly how I feel with all Hong Kong, Singapore, India and England. You’ve captured it perfectly - I *get* social cues and nuances in each of the places, but don’t feel qualified enough to choose any one over the other as my exclusive “where I come from” place.
The reaction of your friend is pretty much the same as I get from mine in England - “What do you mean pass off…”. I know.
Most importantly however, Marmite FOREVER RULES over Vegemite.
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
@Starburst- Just a thought- I know what you mean re: ‘not feeling qualified’, but I’m actually thinking it has more to do with you not sharing the viewpoints of your Aussie peers; and as a result, you don’t identify with them; like you say, you’re ‘qualified’ to, but not the same as…
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Hmmm, yeah. I can identify comfortably and happily - but only to an extent. And I guess that extent is plainly visible to me, but not so plain to the naked eye of the natives.
I guess.
Ah well. I’ll always have Marmite to cheer me up of a morning.
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Dude. I’ll look over the Vegemite snub (why Marmite? Its so weak tasting!) because you have a Monty Python icon.
“I have a great fwiend in Wome…”
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Ha ha. Fair enough!
To be honest, it’s probably conditioning: both Mar and Vege mites were available in Singapore. My parents happened to pop more Mar into the trolley. And I don’t get any Vegemite living in the UK now.
Fair dues to the Vege though - it fills a hole like very few other things can.
The nurses where I work sometimes mix Marmite into hot water like Bovril - I personally think this is a step too far.
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
While that’s true… At the same time we claim something of them, don’t we?
And that’s the upside. While I might not be a good American, or Vietnamese, or Indonesian, or whatever… I can be a bad one, which is more of one than other people. So there come the times when I feel perfectly fine taking multiple sides of an argument.
(Is this spam?)
February 6th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Is true.
I feel like being TCK is like being a Venn diagram with multiple circles. You inhabit the overlapping bits and can understand and relate to each of the exclusive bits in turn because of your vantage point.
Heh ‘overlapping bits’ - notice the precise mathematical terminology.
(Is this spam?)
February 7th, 2008 at 1:14 am
I just had a thought to do with this…
Maybe it’s easier for me given my setting, but maybe it’ll be easier for you…
In history and political science, we’re taught that the principle of Liberalism (in the *real* political sense) is that cooperation is better than conflict. Two sides of an argument will generally gain more out of compromising and cooperating than disagreeing.
So why see it as a “War of Cultures?” I know that often other people don’t see it that way, but there’s nothing wrong with not being a good Australian, as I see it, since if you can be a little bit foreign but not too much, that makes you more interesting.
Besides, we can’t always blame other people for our misgivings or disappointments. Sometimes you just have to make the best of it.
(Is this spam?)
February 7th, 2008 at 1:39 am
In a way, Isa - you don’t have a problem. You can be whatever you want. The only thing we have trouble changing is our passport and the visa situations that come with it. Sadly, there are no provisions for TCKs in this world regarding that.
You don’t have to be truthful all the time to people about who you are if it disturbs them. It’s like going to a job interview. Who on earth tells the truth when they’re at one of those? There are certain responses that they want to hear and if you know what these are, you give them willingly knowing that you’re full of BS.
You can deal with this situation in a similar way - just so one remark doesn’t get into the way of the rest of your life!
Hope this makes sense.
(Is this spam?)
February 7th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I get what you’re saying. I sometimes “feel” American, even though I dont have a passport or permanent residency or anything and get so hassled when entering the country. However when I am in the US, I sometimes feel so non-American… hard to explain…
“well, where were you born?’ or ‘what’s your passport?”…as for these questions… if people take these questions as determining “where I am from” it’s only like a third of the story. because I am not even a citizen of the country I was born in and hadnt been back since birth and then my passport country…complicated…
(Is this spam?)
February 7th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I have two passports, but I wasn’t born, nor did I grow up in either. I can be objective & look at both countries with as much objectivity as any other country (a typical TCK trait). This seems to surprise others. They seem to feel that because I have a ____ passport, I am being “un-____” if I criticize anything about it.
I find that I don’t have many friends who are my countrymen UNLESS they’re TCKs. Otherwise, my countrymen find me too un-____.
(Is this spam?)
February 8th, 2008 at 4:49 am
hey Isa… I know how you feel about this war inside of you.
I’ve had that too for years, without even having the words for it (basically I just thought I was a ‘wierdo’ who couldn’t ‘fit in’).
Are you able to get to the thought of “I’m both and none at the same time”? After I learned about TCK and later joined this group, how I feel and view my cultural identity has been maturing. It’s hard to explain with words, but I feel like I’m getting closer to really knowing who I am.
I started with stardust’s thought of “intersection”, but now I’m feeling more like scattered peices of each culture.
It’s hard to explain with words, but what I wanted to say is: keep exploring yourself and this TCK group, and I think you’ll find your “peace of cultures”.
With regards to what other people say/think, I know it’s hard. I still would rather not talk to people about my muticulturality (and pass off as a Brazilian), but at least now I’m feeling more secure **inside** of who I am. And then I think with time I’ll feel more confortable talking about it to people.
I think there’s no other good way of comming out of that conversation (the “What do you mean you can ‘pass off’ as being an Aussie? I mean — hello!”) than explaining about TCK (maybe not directly, but by telling the story of your life). And if they go “oh, but you were so young”, tell them that there is research about this stuff and social scientists and anthropologysts back you up, it’s not just something you made up.
But people can be “as dumb as a door” (as they say here in Brazil), so maybe this might not be a very good idea - I tried it with my dad and it worked a bit but who knows how it would be with your peers.
And I don’t get why they’re so defensive about it either, it’s as if you’re betraying them or something.
Ok, I think I talked a lot but didn’t say much… I just wanted to say that I know how you feel, I’m also going through this identity confusion/discovery. We’ll get through it!!!
(Is this spam?)
February 13th, 2008 at 12:20 am
‘And a friend saying “What do you mean you can ‘pass off’ as being an Aussie? I mean — hello!”’
That would definitely tick off any TCK and definitely for me. I mean who are they to judge who I am you know? Which is probably why none of my closest friends would talk to me like that LOL
Being in China is quite an experience because people see me as Taiwanese and from that they see me as Chinese where as a matter of fact I feel as Chinese as they do American. However when people make comments like that when I say stuff like what you did I just ignore those comments. Because they don’t know me.
As TCKs, I think we shouldn’t let what other people think of us affect how we think of ourselves. Which is why we have this website, this community - to help us validate our inner feelings, the “war” that we have. To know that it is indeed ok to be a part of various different cultures.
“I was wondering if it is possible to be one both inside and outside your passport/home countries? For example, i identify with other cultures when i am in Australia but when i am outside of Australia i dentify partly with Australian culture?”
TOTALLY possible! I always feel like that. I never feel Taiwanese when I’m in Taiwan but I guess a good thing about Taiwan is people do understand that you may not relate completely to the culture because there are a lot of overseas Taiwanese that would return to Taiwan for vacation. The hardest I have is being OUTSIDE of Taiwan, quite ironically. People would assume I am 100% Taiwanese for holding the passport. But then again, why should I care what they think? I mean I don’t live for them to judge me right?
I enjoy being a TCK and enjoy the fact that I can be of many cultures and not have to be like them, trying to fit everyone in a box so that it will be easier for THEM to identify.
Just my 2 rmb pennies hehe…
(Is this spam?)
April 19th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Girl, just holla at me via email please:
msmerising@yahoo.com
You ARE me in a weird way…I get what you are saying. My fam is Croatian, I grew up along the Eastern sea board and I now live in Los Angeles. And my ideas of racism in Australia dramatically differ from people in Australia so we have much to build on.
Excuse my slang…I speak like a dozen hybrids of English,lol…
M
x
(Is this spam?)