Shame-Based vs. Guilt-Based Society: Which makes repatriation easier?
While listening to my home church pastor’s sermon, I was inspired to think more about how my own values are shaped due to my Korean heritage and having lived in Japan for five and a half years. Repatriation is an issue for many TCKs due to becoming hidden immigrants in their parent(s)’s country where they look alike but think different.
Before discussing which of the shame- and guilt-based societies is easier to repatriate, I would like to borrow the definiotions of shame and guilt from the Cambridge dictonary.
The dictionary defines
shame: loss of honour and respect
guilt: the fact of having done something wrong or committed a crime
From these definitions and the inspiration by the pastor, I can discuss that shame is defined by “who you are” while guilt is “what you do.” Shame-based cultures define you by the image of who you are but guilt-based cultures define you by individuality, right and worng based on the law.
The pastor said that when he learned the Viriginia Tech shooter (Cho Seung Hui) was Korean, he apologized to his caucasian friends as a Korean. He thought of the reason why he apologized. It felt right to him and it was because he believed what he did reflected on himself and others.
Many Asian, Middle Eastern, and African countries are shame-based countries. Of the many, Japan could be an extreme case. Not only their uniformity of style, clothes, manners, speech, and formality, Japan even has a saying that”Nail sticking out of a piece of wood, it will be hammered in.”
If the society is shame-oriented, then would it mean being different (a prevalent issue among TCKs) is hard to cope with than in a guilt-based society? I would like to hear more views on the the guilt-based society.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:26 am
In a shame-based culture, to admit failure looks bad on the honor of your family… so everything is kept secret.
You did something bad? OMG! SHAME ON YOU! … who can admit anything in that kind of environment?! How can you improve at all??
So yeah, I agree! Repatriation would be easier in a guilt-based culture.
But a guilt-based culture isn’t perfect either, because most people associate “what they do” with “who they are”.
If they do something wrong, they beat themselves up and think they’re a bad person. (which is not necessarily true).. there should be no correlation between what you do and your self-image.
As far as being a TCK and fitting in… we can’t be expected to fit in anywhere, and certainly not in a shame-based culture. We’re different. We can relate to these cultures on certain levels, but not be expected to fully fit in.
What can we do to fit in a shame-based culture?
First, we shouldn’t lose who we are at the core, in order to fit in. We can do our best to comply with the rules, but not when it goes against our values. We need to pick our battles.
It’s hard, because you’re the only one with these values, so you’re more vulnerable to change… which is why a support group is so important to keep you sane.
But do we really want to change ourselves completely to fit in that kind of environment?
It’s often best not to fit in the dominant culture if you don’t agree with its views. Which is why it’s good to find a small group who accepts you for who you are.
That’s my 2 cheezburgers!
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June 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I find that the line between running away/leaving and staying to make things work is a thin line in a given situation.
We are given advice not to run away and try to make things work, and yet sometimes staying and trying to make things work just isn’t productive.
How do we know when to stay and when to leave?
I don’t know the answer to this.
Sun Tzu the Chinese war strategist felt that knowing when to leave was important. When the King of Wu died and his son (the new King) began to spiral down into the abyss of corruption - Sun Tzu left his post and retired even though Wu Zixu asked him not to go.
“After the passing of King Helü, Wu did not earn the trust of Fuchai (夫差), the new King of Wu. In particular, he saw the long-term danger of King Goujian (勾踐) of Yue (越) and advised the king to conquer that state. But the King listened instead to Bo Pi, an imperial minister who was bribed by the state of Yue, and he gave a sword to Wu to commit suicide on the alleged ground of sabotage. Before he committed suicide, Wu Zixu requested King Fuchai to remove his eyes after his death and hang them on top of the city gate, so he could watch the eventual capture of the Wu capital by the Yue army.” (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zixu)
Clearly Wu Zixu’s decision to stay and try and make things work wasn’t such a good idea.
I often struggle with this kind of decision making myself and sometimes force myself to bend over backwards to resolve the situation because I feel I’m too hasty in choosing departure.
That said, I feel that the gist of the story above is that Sun Tzu felt that the set of values of the new King were so different from his, it just wasn’t constructive for Sun Tzu to stay anymore - and so he left wisely.
So back to Miyon’s question…
If your values are very different and you are in a shame based society like Japan - how are you ever going to reconcile yourself with what you must do?
If you cannot conform to the uniformity that they demand, you will continue to be hammered into the ground at every turn. In fact even if you try you can always take the wrong turn and run into someone with a big hammer too.
I think that ultimately after trying for 20 years - I had to leave. I was somehow barely managing to make things work but I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown and thought how nice it would be if I could go to sleep and never wake-up again, just so I wouldn’t have to deal with life anymore. When I started to think about this way too often I gave-up.
It was time to leave.
What I suggest for other people is to plan an escape before it gets this bad. Once you are this desperate to leave you aren’t going to find the best options for escape. You need to do it while you are still reasonably doing ok, because it takes time to find a new job and relocate.
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June 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
This is a really interesting question!
Sadly, I’d like to throw out what seems to be an emerging third choice.
I give you “people with no shame nor any guilt.” I suppose this would be a “Me” based culture. People who don’t seem to have any sense of societal responsibility, and with no real sense of doing anything that isn’t immediately beneficial or gratifying at a personal level.
I’m sure this kind of behavior has always existed to some degree. Perhaps I’ve just become more observant as I’ve gotten older. But it certainly seems to be becoming more common that certain types of crime, and the absence of people jumping in to help during such events seems to be occurring with increased regularity.
One example here…some guys walked into a convenience store, shot the clerk, robbed the place, and left. (he eventually died) At one point on the security camera, a guy walks in, grabs a case of beer, puts his money on the counter, and walks out (until they’d watched the tape closely enough, they wanted to question this guy for theft). A smallish crowd was gathering by this time, yet it still took a good 5-10 minutes for anyone to call for help. Nobody really wanted to get involved.
The up and coming generation down here, the people who should by now be well educated about throwing trash out anywhere and everywhere are the primary offenders. Nobody cares, it’s someone else’s problem. NZ has a “clean and green” reputation, but I’d be surprised if they can hang on to it.
So, back to the original question, here’s how I’d probably rank them if given a choice:
1. Guilt
2. Shame
527. Me
My $0.04NZD, adjusted for inflation.
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July 4th, 2008 at 7:33 am
but guilt always inevitably leads to shame, so is it not the same? i eman if you are made to feel guilty, as though you did something wrong, then shame follows soon after, no? this is often the case with children who have been sexually abused and feel like they participated and thus did something wrong, its the shame that kills them. likewise with ex-cons, they did something wrong,they were found guilty and punished, and with punishment comes shame, i mean going to jail is not exactly soemthing one can be proud of (unless you are a political prisoner or something)
so i say its the same. i don’t know if mine is a shame or guilt based society, i know i felt both of those things. i felt the guilt of not speaking my “mother tongue”, the guilt of not knowing my culture, the guilt of speaking english with an accent as though all those things were something i did and chose to do wrong, but i could replace the word “guilt” in that sentence with “shame” because the guilt (especially as a child) quickly turned into shame and the shame is so much harder to wash off.
there is a difference between guilt and shame, yes, but one usually quickly turns into another, especially when you are a child. and we all lived outside our parent countries as children, i mean that is a very basis of being tck, it had to have happened when you were a child, when you were a minor.
so yeah, its a tough question to answer for me because the two are so tightly tied together.
as for ayako’s comments on leaving, yeah man, i don’t know about the sicking around and fighting bit. i mean, i do encourage tcks to return tot heir parent countries for a while, i think its interesting to see where your parents come from, i think its healthy to face one’s demons as well, but if you choose not to i can totally understand that.
i also don’t think that moving can bring happiness if a person is just depressed within. then the depression will just follow you. but like when i moved from botswana, i knew my problem was the country. it was the ONLY country i had ever lived in that made me feel that way. when i kept telling my fiance i needed to move he was concerned i was “running away” from a problem that was within me and that it would follow me wherever so i should dela with it there. but i knew in my heart of hearts that it had everything to do with where i was living. and it did! look at me now, i am flourishing!
i guess the hard part is making sure, i would say move and see. if you are still unhappy then mabe you should stay put for a while and work on yourself, you know. i mean ayako tried for 20 years! i don’t think i have that kind of patience. in fact i know i don’t i lived in bots for 5 years (3 if you coult how much time i spent in south africa) and left as soon as i could.
but back to the shame/guilt based cultures, yeah, its a shme (no pun intended)that children are made to feel like there is something wrong with them when they are so young (if you repatriated early), hell, its a shame that anyone is made to feel that way just because they can’t be labeled.
as for the “me” culture, yeah, that’s a whole other story…
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July 4th, 2008 at 10:46 am
“Guilt-based culture”.
I personally find Australia to be a “guilt-based culture”. They revel in this “comforting cultural myth” of the Larrakin, the one who does as he pleases. However…only within “comfortable confines”. If you are different you are picked on, picked apart and under constant assault for being different.
People I know from Australia do not understand my disdain for my “passport country”. I internalized that guilt so deeply I willingly became the victim of an abusive relationship because after 23 years of not “fitting in” I just wanted to be accepted & loved. When my ex told me I deserved to be beat for “being a problem” (having my own ideas) I just couldn’t fight for my rights & opinions and took it all. Until a year and a half later I woke up and was like “What is happening to me? Where am I? Where is my strong, resilient spirit and why am I allowing someone to destroy me”. I was nearly murdered going through that process…but the roots of my depression was from growing up in a “guilt-based” culture which in turn created a “guilt-based” family unit who was all too aware we did not fit and in turn tried to force us to do so.
Be careful of the seeds you plant…they have lasting effects..
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July 4th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
MsMerising: I am sincerely glad you woke-up and got out of this terrible relationship.
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July 4th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
I’ll second Ayako. We’re glad you’re here MsMerising!
On behalf of non-violent husbands everywhere, I’m sorry you had to go through that, and glad you made it out the other side. I like to think there’s a special place in hell reserved for guys who feel the need to abuse their spouses.
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July 4th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Thanks for the love. And no need for apologies - I had a vision before I met the man warning me he was toxic and I chose to proceed when I could have left it alone (and DEFINATELY left after I got to see his devilish side). But you know what? You live and learn. All I know is decisions based in guilt, shame & depression lead to BAD situations.
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July 5th, 2008 at 3:05 am
MsMerising: THANK YOU! For putting to words how i feel re: the ‘larrakin’ culture and for this: “People I know from Australia do not understand my disdain for my “passport country”. I thought that i was the only one who feels like this!!
I *try* to be even handed when talking abt Australia, but my emotions often get the better of me on most occasions — b/c no one understands me — and so i bottle it up and comes out all in a rush… and ugh. Anywho — glad to see ‘m not alone, but sad that you had to go through that.
Also Re: an abusive relationship (been there but with a fam member) it sucks but it shows your great strength that you survived.
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July 5th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Ayako, the story of Sun Tzu was insightful. Thank you for sharing this. I might use this as a reminder to step back and think of the best option. In many cases it might be right to cope with the place than to leave.
Jerry, that’s right. a culture with zero guilt and shame will do us no good. i thought the “me culture” was creative lol
Warona, it is true that there are situations shame and guilt are so tied together that they seem inseparable. You have sprung up some new insights and thoughts. Thank you for the input.
MsMerising and Isa, I am humbled by my ignorance in guilt-based countries. It must have been so hard to cope with these guilt attacks and it’s not your fault that you are different! I am burdened with frustrations caused by the imposed “should-be and should-not-be’s”
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