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How can TCKs deal with Depression
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My early experiences with Depression
We all get depressed at one time or another in our lifetime and its for this reason we need to know how to deal with depression when we are faced with it. The more difficult thing for TCK’s is that often they feel they have nobody to turn to when they are depressed or believe that nobody will understand their feelings or knows what they are going through.
I remember my first serious bout of depression. It was after moving to the second school since leaving Nigeria, Africa, the place I had treated as home for 14 years. Coming to England had been tough. At the time my parents were still out in Nigeria, I had been sent home earlier to be able to start the school year and the change in culture and the feelings of rejection and isolation were unbearable at times. The evenings were dark, the weather cold, no local knowledge. I stood out as someone strange with my tanned skin and leather school bag. Here I was, making friends yet again but missing my old friends terribly. Not really being aware of what I was really going through. Yes at the time I just had to get on with life, there was nobody to talk to and when my parents did come back from Africa, I am told I didn’t talk to them at all for quite a while.
I remember being desperately lonely at the time but at least I had my brothers when they came back. It was when I moved again to a new area and another school that the depression got a hold of me. I was so depressed at the time that I thought at times the only way I could get rid of the depression was to end it all somehow. After all, nobody really cared it seemed and at least those feelings would be gone. Fortunately this struggle never went as far as suicide or self harm. This struggle within me was addictive, yes in some ways I enjoyed feeling sorry for myself and the guilt of negative feelings and the “knowledge” that there was nobody who would understand me anyway if I was to tell them, encapsulated me into my own dark world.
Why I think it was difficult at the time for me was that I was also going through puberty, trying to get a sense of identity which had all but been stripped away. My previous life had been killed off and buried in an unmarked grave, all I had left was the photo album of memories in my head to remind me of that world. I never confided in anyone, not my parents, my brothers, nobody. I would have felt so guilty of admitting such feelings. Even now I feel guilty that I ever thought such thoughts.
So that was where I was and how I felt at the time. I was addicted to the negative feelings and the most dangerous thing about it all was I felt that there was nobody I could confide in about it.
These are some of the reasons why I think TCKs are more susceptible to feelings of depression and suicide. Nobody seems to understand, nobody seems to care, nobody to support them when it all seems too much to cope with.
Getting out and staying out the Cycle of Depression
OK, a bit of a disclaimer here, I do not pretend to be an expert on depression but follows are some of my suggestions and tips on the issue of depression.
1. Find out more about what you’re dealing with.
Firstly, do some research on Depression and find out a bit more about it, the symptoms the causes and the treatments. Get an idea of what you are dealing with, either for your depression or the depression of someone else.
Recommended sites:
http://www.depression.com/
http://www.samaritans.org/
2. Get a diagnosis and get help.
Secondly, find someone you can talk to about depression if you are suffering from it. Don’t think you have to tackle depression on your own. There was no internet when I was going through depression but nowadays there are user-groups, forums and resources available. Talk to your doctor, or someone who is able to help with depression. If your depression is severe, get some diagnosis if you can so you again know what you are dealing with. If you can, get more than one opinion too. Sometimes depression can have other causes than the circumstances you are in.
Signs of depression.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression/DS00175/DSECTION=symptoms
3. If you don’t have depression but know someone who does, help them!
If you don’t suffer from depression but know someone who does, be there for them, support them, ask after them, try to give them a sense of worth. Find some professional help for them if you can. Sometimes getting them involved in something can help them to gain a sense of worth. Whatever you do, don’t blame the depression on them or be confrontational about it. Often just listening or visiting is all that someone needs to lift their spirits.
4. Try and lead a balanced lifestyle.
Often with depression it can lead to other problems and addictions. We sometimes resort to something, anything to try and take the pain away. As much as possible lead a balanced lifestyle, eat regularly, eat the right foods, get enough sleep. Do some exercise. Don’t use your depression as an excuse to make things worse for yourself. It may lead to even more depressed feelings if you find yourself addicted to alcohol or cigarettes etc, as you then struggle with multiple issues at the same time.
5. Find a way of expressing your feelings.
One way I cope with my feelings is to write poetry or do something creative. I found poetry was one of the best ways for me as I find it a bit tedious writing anything of great length, but that is me. Some people will find writing something longer helps them. It doesn’t have to be particularly good poetry or stories or drawings either. As long as you are finding an outlet for some of your feelings it helps. When you do write etc, often things can be a bit negative, try writing something positive too.
6. Try to change the way you think and talk.
Teach yourself to be more positive. Get involved in some activities and make some friends. If you are suicidal, give yourself reasons for living. Care for someone perhaps who is elderly by visiting them. Sponsor a child or family who are poor. Get a pet or something to look after. Do things that occupy your mind so you do not think about depression.
7. Write about your feelings or pray, if you don’t feel like you can talk to anyone about it.
Journal and write about your feelings. Writing about trauma has been shown to improve physical and emotional health. And if you are religious, learn to vocalise and express how you feel to God is better than keeping it all bottled up and talking to nobody at all. But don’t decide to blame God for your circumstances. What makes us more mature and a more stable character is not the circumstances that we are in, but how we have learned to cope with them. Remember, if we pray for patience; don’t be surprised if we have circumstances where we are required to be patient in! And if you are determined that you will not pray, just talk to yourself about it. Its the vocalising of your feelings etc that I am referring to. Remember to express your positive feelings as well as negative in your words so you have a balance. Continually dwelling on the negative will only make things worse.
8. Don’t be disheartened if it takes some time to get out of depression.
It can often pay a visit again so getting a good strategy in dealing with it is important. Always remember as well as the downs, there are ups. So try and give yourself an up or 2 a day to lift your spirits if you are felling a little low.
9. If you have a problem, admit it to yourself. Don’t try and cover it up by denying it.
Don’t try and lie about it to yourself. Say it as it is and decide to move on. Just remember sometimes when you working at getting out of depression it is a process, so you will have days when you make progress and days when you lapse into depression, yep it happens. So don’t put yourself down about it, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move on.
10. Don’t try and punish yourself for your behaviour.
Be prepared to make mistakes (something I find very difficult is allowing myself to make mistakes) and decide you wont punish yourself for making them but will learn and move on. Apologise to those you may have offended or hurt and keep going.
Well, there are a few pointers for you. So you know, depression is temporary unless you feed it. It can be a medical problem, eg the amount of natural light levels! so get a good diagnosis. There is a way through if you make the effort. And above all, remember that you are not alone. Depression is a common problem and CAN be overcome. And yes, you will feel a little depressed now and then, thats a fact of life.
If you are feeling Depressed, suicidal or feel like harming yourself in some way, here are some resources you can use.
Or do a search on the web for more help.
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July 15th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Disclaimer:
This forum is NOT able to provide immediate crisis intervention or professional counseling.
You need to speak to a PROFESSIONAL who has the training and resources to offer IMMEDIATE EMERGENCY care.
Don’t wait. Don’t put it off. You need to pick up the phone and take action NOW!!
National Hopeline Network 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK — All calls to the 1-800-273-TALK Lifeline are private and confidential.
Confidentiality of personal information and of personal disclosures during calls is a high priority for the parties involved in operating the Lifeline.
WWW.HOPELINE.COM
WWW.YOUTHLINE.US
1-877-YOUTHLINE
1-877-SUICIDA
1-800-PPD-MOMS
1-877-VET2VET
1-800-442-HOPE
1-800-COPLINE
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Hong Kong ~ +852 23820000 ~ Hong Kong’s Hotlines
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Israel (Hebrew/English)) ~ 09 8848332 ~ Hebrew/English Hotline
Israel (Russian) ~ 1800-24-1201 ~ Russian Israeli Hotline
Italy ~ 06-7045-4444 or 800 86 00 22 or 199 284 284 ~ Italian Hotlines
also German Language part of Italy (South Tyrol) 840-000-481
Jamaica ~ 977-5754 or 1 888 991 4505
Japan ~ 3-5286-9090 ~ Nippon Hotlines or Hotline in English
Liberia ~ 653-4308 ~ Liberian Hotline
Liechtenstein ~ 147
Lithuania ~ 8-800-2-8888 ~ Lithuanian Hotlines
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Malaysia ~ 03-756-8144 or (06) 284 2500 ~ Malaysian Hotlines
Malta ~ 179 ~ Maltan Hotlines
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New Zealand ~ 4-473-9739 or 0602 222 88
Nicaragua ~ 505-268-6171
Norway ~ 815-33-300 ~ Norwegian Hotlines
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Samoa ~ 32000 ~ Somoan Hotline
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Singapore ~ 800-221-4444 or 000-227-0309 ~ Singapore’s Hotlines
South Africa ~ 0861-322-322 or 051 444 5000 or 0861 322 322 ~ South African Hotlines
South Korea ~ 2-715/6/7/8-8600 or (local)-9191 or (82) 51 804 0896 ~ South Korean Hotlines
Spain ~ 91-459-00-50 ~ Spain’s Hotlines
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Sudan ~ (249) 11-555-253
Sweden ~ 020 22 00 60 or 031-711-2400 ~ Swedish Hotlines
Switzerland ~ 143 or +41 (0) 27 321 21 21 ~ Switzerland Hotlines
Taiwan ~ (037) 332565 or 332621 ~ Taiwanese Hotlines
Thailand ~ 02-249-9977 or (02) 713-6793 ~ Thai Hotlines
Tonga ~ 23000 or 25144
Trinidad & Tobago ~ 868-645-2800
Turkey ~ 182
Ukraine ~ 058 or 0487-327715 or 0482-226565 ~ Ukrainian Hotlines
United Kingdom ~ 8457 90 90 90 or 8457 90 91 92 ~ U. K. Hotlines
United States ~ 911 ~ 1-800-273-8255 or 1-800-784-2433 ~ Hotlines 1 ~ Hotlines 2 ~ State Hotlines
Misc.
~ En Español ~ 1-800-784-2432 (1-800-SUI-CIDA)
~ Veterans ~ 1-877-838-2838 (1-877-VET-2VET)
~ Youth ~ 1-877- 968-4843 (1-877-YOUTHGUIDE)
Uruguay ~ 0800 45 45/0800 84 83 (llamada gratuita) or 099 705 070/094 440 877 (cellular) ~ Uruguay’s Hotlines
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July 15th, 2008 at 11:28 am
1-858-481-1515
National Eating Disorder Referral and Information Center
International treatment referrals and prevention information
edreferral@edreferral.com
1-800-931-2237
National Eating Disorders Association
International treatment referrals and information
4Therapy.com Network
Natioanal database of thousands of mental health professionals including psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, marriage and family therapists, and pastoral counselors.
1-800-THERAPIST (1-800-843-7274)
1-800 THERAPIST Network
International mental health referral service
1-847-831-3438
Anorexia Nerovsa and Associate Disorders (ANAD)
Referrals to treatment and Information
1-800-RENFREW (1-800-736-3739) The Renfrew Center
Referrals to Eating Disorder specialists (US and Canada)
1-800-841-1515
Rader Programs
Referrals to Eating Disorder specialists (US and Canada)
1-505-891-4320
Overeater’s Anonymous
Referrals to local chapters and information
1-617-558-1881
Massachusetts Eating Disorder Association, Inc Helpline
Staffed by trained/supervised individuals.
M-Friday 9:30-5:00pm.
Wednesday evenings until 8:00pm
Adult Helpline: 011-44-8456-341414
Youthline: 011-44-8456-347650
Eating Disorders Association (UK)
Adult Helpline: (open 8:30 to 20:30 weekdays)
Youthline: (open 16:00 to 18:30 weekdays)
011-44-1458-448600
Somerset & Wessex Eating Disorders Association
Tuesday 4pm - 7pm, Wednesday 10am - 1pm, Friday 6pm - 8pm
1-314-588-1683
Bulimia and Self-Help Hotline
(24 hours crisis line)
011-44-2600366
The Eating Distress Helpline (Ireland)
Monday, Friday and Sunday, 6pm-8pm
1-800-969-NMHA (1-800-969-6642)
The National Mental Health Association Information Center
…will put you in touch with your local Mental Health Association, who will help you find community mental health services and self-help support groups.
1-800-950-NAMI
National Alliance for The Mentally Ill
1-773-327-1500 / 1-800-7-VOICE-8
VOICES in Action
An international organization to provide assistance to survivors of incest and child sexual abuse — if you need help or someone to talk to…
1-212-632-4640
Cult Hotline and Clinic
National and International support available 9am to 5pm (EST)
1-301-443-4513
National Institute for Mental Health
1-800-64-PANIC (1-800-647-2642)
Panic Disorder Information Line
Provides written information, and referral lists of counselers in local areas
1-800-656-HOPE (1-800-656-4673)
Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network (RAINN)
Provides service for survivors of sexual assault who can not reach a rape crisis center through a local telephone call, as well as for those who might not know that a local center exists. Operates 24 hours
1-800-799-SAFE (1-800-799-7233)
National Domestic Violence Hotline
For the victims of domestic violence, their families and friends across the U.S. — Crisis intervention, referrals, information and support in many languages.
1-800-4-A-CHILD (1-800-422-4453)
Child-Help USA
National Child Abuse hotling offering crisis counseling for children or adult survivors 24 hours a day. Also offers referrals for sexual abuse treatment programs, reporting suspected child abuse, shelters, advocacy, mental health, and legal aid. Literature on prevention of child abuse available upon request.
1-800-821-4357
Alcohol and Drug Hotline
Treatment Centers and AA Support Groups
1-800-662-HELP (1-800-662-4357)
National Drug and Alcohol Treatment Hotline
Providing information on alcohol and drug abuse, local treatment options and to speak with someone about alcohol, drug or family problems.
1-800-331-2900
Alcohol Hotline
1-800-435-7609
Help Now hotline
1-800-999-9999
Covenant House Nine Line
24-hour support, assistance and referrals for teens in crisis.
1-800-621-4000
National Adolescent Suicide Hotline
(Answered by the runaway switchboard)
1-800-643-6250
Sexual Assault Crisis Line
A national 24-hour hotline located in Mississippi, that can provide support and refer you to a crisis center locally.
1-800-DONT CUT (1-800-366-8288)
Self-Injury Help by S.A.F.E. (Self Abuse Finally Ends)
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July 15th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Samaritans:
If you need to talk to someone on the phone:
08457 90 90 90 in the UK and Northern Ireland
1850 60 90 90 in the Republic of Ireland
Find it impossible to talk about your problems?
Then don’t.
Email Samaritans now:
jo@samaritans.org
Prefer putting pen to paper?
Write to Samaritans:
Chris,
P.O. Box 90 90,
Stirling,
FK8 2SA
For more information:
http://www.samaritans.org.uk/talk_to_someone.aspx
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July 15th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I just want to say, from personal experience there is no better person to get you out of a bout of depression than yourself.
Identify what it is that you’re feeling bad about, identify why you feel that way, and what you really can do to fix it.
Quite often, we’re the ones holding ourselves back. You have to try and find a line at which you stop and say “Okay, cut the crap, I have to stop feeling sorry for myself and tripping myself up deeper into trouble and just start pulling up.”
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July 15th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Some literature explaining how people who have been suicidal for some time are like victims of PTSD:
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ptsd.htm
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July 15th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Wow… I looked at the list and surprisingly i found that they were the exact things I did to recover from depression.
boy am i ever glad there’s no “talk to your parents/friends”. UM no, last thing I would do.
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July 16th, 2008 at 1:02 am
Sadly our society is dysfunctional because usually for suicidal people the worst thing is to talk to friends or family, because the suicidal urge usually even comes partially because of them.
You have a problem that’s overwhelming you and you can’t deal with it. Family and friends say things to make this problem worse because they either don’t have time to listen and are apathetic or just tell you to deal with it (when you clearly have shown you can’t!).
Alternatively friends and family simply have no time to listen to the suicidal or depressed person because they are busy dealing with their own problems.
We have all these suicide hotlines in this world, so that someone will LISTEN to you when your friends and family fail you.
We can’t really choose our own family but I hope that people can make friends with people who are willing to be a little more than just fair weather friends and will listen to you when you need them to.
If not, call the suicide hotline. Talking can be very therapeutic.
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July 16th, 2008 at 6:11 am
you know what’s funny? My super Chinese parents always say something like this.
“Why do them crazy western people trust other people than their own family? WHy they pay for everything? When they are sad they pay for someone to talk to, why would they even trust them more?”
I am thinking…”wow I can’t believe you even have the guts to say that…considering how BAD and JUDGMENTAL a LISTENER YOU ARE.”
Family…sure… I hate it when people tell you family is above anything else because to be quite honest,that’s not the point! THe point is they don’t get it, they drive me insane, they don’t listen therefore I DON’T talk to THEM, and I don’t care if they are important because that doesn’t mean I should break my own mentality and go talk to them.
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July 16th, 2008 at 6:37 am
mmmmmm, yeah, I have it a *little* the same way. My family really isn’t bad about it, but more traditional Asian parents do just tend to assume that family is the core of everything.
The important thing, I find, is to really identify what any individual is good at, family or not. It could well be that your family is a good source of advice, but it might not. And maybe these numbers stink and don’t take you as a person into account the way a close friend or family member might.
You just have to judge things on an individual basis.
Believe me though, I know where you’re coming from when it comes to Asian parents who, despite lots of trouble with their own family not understanding them, insist that they will for you.
Just never make assumptions, that’s my rule.
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July 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am
meh…I don’t know. I think for my generation of Chinese children it’s more difficult than ever. CUz my parents were born during like cultural revolution and stuff and i don’t know…Their ideas of life is way more simplistic even though they don’t believe the fact that we are so much more complicated than they are. But yah, my generation is like the first rebellion generation in CHinese history just because of the fact that we are born at the beginning of the economical boom. Then the fact that I got sent off all over the world to become a TCK just made it 100 times more difficult.
Yah my school suggested that I go get diagnosis cuz I have a lot of symptoms of ADD and other weird things…I love how they wanted to contact my parents except I had to proofread their letter before they sent it off because honestly they have no idea how to talk to Chinese parents without making them freak out. I remember the principal reading the letter. I just jumped out of my chair going like “NO!!” I think she began the letter with sumthing like “Mary is a very bright, smart blahblahblah…” Then I was like… Ergh no don’t say all that, because Chinese parents don’t buy it, their immediate reaction to these complements is, “Ok, what have you done wrong? What favor do you need?”
So I told them to get right to the point and just don’t say all the artificial polite stuff because they will simply understand these comments as a way to confound them.
in the end i did get a diagnosis. still haven’t got the result but my mom is still all “These people spend so much money on useless things.”
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July 16th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
mmmm that’s a VERY good point.
Which is why the following stats are not too surprising. Let’s take Asian Americans for example.
• Suicide second-leading cause of death for Asian-American women 15-24
• Highest suicide rate among women of any race, ethnicity for that age group
• Experts cite “model minority” expectations, family pressures as factors
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/05/16/asian.suicides/index.html
# In a study of older adolescents (18-21), Asian Americans reported significantly higher levels of depression than Whites (Lorenzo et al, 2000).
# In a study of Asian American and White college students, Asian American students reported higher levels of depression and social anxiety (Okazaki, 1997).
# For depression, APIA have differing prevalence of diagnoses when compared to whites, with APIA boys less likely to be diagnosed than white boys, while APIA girls have higher rates than white girls (Abright, 2002).
# Asian American adolescent girls have the highest rates of depressive symptoms of all racial and gender groups (Schoen et al, 1997).
# Urban Chinese American middle school students who were exposed to and/or experienced violence reported more symptoms of depression and PTSD (Ozer and McDonald, 2006). It should be noted that 96% of Asian Americans live in metropolitan areas (U.S. Census 2000).
# A study of Chinese American youth found that harsh parental disciplinary practices and mothers’ immigrant status were significantly associated with depressive symptoms (Kim and Ge, 2000).
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July 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
“And it’s all about “Face.” I’d explain this concept to my Western counterparts as “the pride of your parents, your immediate relatives, your extended relatives, and all your dead ancestors rolled up into this brand you will forever bear on your forehead for the rest of your life.” Essentially, if you don’t excel (we’ll go into that in a minute), then you will “lose face” and bring shame not just to yourself, but more importantly your parents, your relatives, your ancestors, and any being dead-or-alive that would bear the same last name as you.
If that kind of pressure applied day after day and year after year - doesn’t make a person mentally crack - I don’t know what will.
Doing Your Best Means Being Better Than Someone Else
Asian American students are expected to excel. More accurately, “be better than.” Excelling in our culture is based squarely on “being better than someone else, preferably someone whose parents your parents can’t stand.” I grew up being constantly compared and contrasted with other kids. Why couldn’t I play the piano and the violin and be the first seed on the Tennis team like so-and-so’s kid? Why couldn’t I speak three languages (Chinese doesn’t count) like so-and-so’s son? Oh- why didn’t I score a perfect 1600 on the SATs and get early admission with full scholarship into Harvard, Yale, and Princeton like those twins? And my favorites: “You scored a 99% on your test? Why didn’t you get 100%” and “You scored 100%? How many more students scored 100% in the class?” We’re just never good enough.”
http://www.chinspirations.com/mhsourcepage/asian-students-depression-and-suicide-begin-with-the-parents
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July 17th, 2008 at 9:45 am
sigh i don’t think it’s just the idea about academics that’s the worst. THose to be honest, I can ignore just fine because I’ve already come to the point that parents really can’t hurt me emotionally anymore. because if I let them, I might as well go ahead and kill myself. So i tell myself to learn to not care about what they think or say. The truth is regarding academics, most asian children have high standards for themselves so i wudnt say tat’s a great conflict. I think the greatest conflict is the moral and cultural obligations. The truth is asians in north american are often understood as emo, nerds with no lives and way too goodie goodie. I am your typical asian who excels in math and science, but I am still a big Asian outlier because of my personality and perspectives. Many people tell me I don’t behave Asian at all because I am loud, crazy, not shy and obviously not the vulnerable type that you can mess with at all. As sad as this sounds, but yes, Asian girls tend to be mentally vulnerable because of social expectations. However I almost act like I have divorced my parents and my entire family. In fact I tell this to my friends all the time, “Your parents drive you insane? Divorce them. Don’t let these obligations get to you. Don’t allow yourself to feel guilty about everything you do because you didn’t do anything wrong! As much as we love them, that doesn’t mean we should bottle up everything inside ourselves and lead to crazy suicide rates” Also, the fact that I am ditching science and math for drama and english is incomprehensible to asian adults especially since I am really good at science and math.
There are so many traditional Asian values that make an Asian kid’s life hard. Like the expectation that you have to get married and have children by about 28 and you must settle down with house and cars and security. The entire Asian life is like lived to fulfill these “destinies”. That just makes it 100 times more difficult for a TCK because I don’t want to get married at all and definitely refuse to settle down. People alway ask me where I want to live after I finish school, I tell them wherever my job needs me, but they don’t seem to get it.
Yah I just said all that to point out that the life as an Asian is way more difficult than just straight A’s. In fact straight A’s is about the easiest task on the certification of a good Asian.
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July 17th, 2008 at 9:46 am
P.S. Another thing I like to say to Asian expecation is, “Your face, or my life. I think I prefer my life over your face. I really do.”
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July 17th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
This is a very interesting yet intense read.
You know, I was a rebel as a child. But when I repatriated back to Australia I just got severely depressed because I felt so at home in Canada and did not in Australia. So when I met an American man, and an abusive one at that, who could tell I was depressed he just got into my head with guilt and all that rebellious spirit just became this whole guilt-trip
So, because of depression I got into a bad relationship, which in turn made me further depressed. Than I got pregnant and once went into labor went into even FURTHER depression. I left 3 weeks before I went into labor so after 2 months my anger and fury issues came up. It has taken nearly 4 years to deal with that whole gigantic mess. I should never have gone back to Australia (EVERYONE encouraged it). Probably because of what I went through now everyone (except my family) advises against it, lol..
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July 18th, 2008 at 10:50 am
@MSmerising: yah see…letting other ppl guilt trip us leads us into doing reli reli sadistic things to ourselves… your sotry is actually so easy for me to relate too. Although I havent got into abusive relationship i definitely got into a sumwhat abusive kind of group of friends. One of the gusy reli hated me because he could tell i was depressed and he likes to get into my head and shit.Except the thing is when he did it too much it stopped working on me. In fact it turned me insanely rebellious more than ever and then all of a sudden I just like broke my skin and went wild. LOL
and never again is anybody able to guilt trip me. In fact now people are scared to guilt trip me.
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July 19th, 2008 at 1:22 am
“There are so many traditional Asian values that make an Asian kid’s life hard. Like the expectation that you have to get married and have children by about 28 and you must settle down with house and cars and security. The entire Asian life is like lived to fulfill these “destinies”.” (mmmmmm)
Indeed I was afraid of this banal ‘destiny’ that I knew I would have to fulfill when I went back to Japan even as a teenager going to an International School so the dread of going back to Japan mounted as I progressed forward in my senior year in high school.
The worst part?
It was just as I had suspected and it was impossible to even have normal Japanese female friends from my late twenties on, as the ones who fulfilled this banal destiny had children which means that’s the end of everything. They go into another world which is centered around raising children so extremely that you can forget about ever really talking to them or seeing them again.
Remember that time the Space Shuttle exploded like fireworks and there was a female teacher aboard it? Anyway these horrible Japanese housewives fulfilling their banal destinies said: How could she do something irresponsible like get on a dangerous thing like the Space Shuttle when she has children?
They said it in that accusing way they would to any ‘mother’ who dared to do something different.
That just about sums up their mentality.
Once you have children you are not a person anymore but a ‘mom’ who has no identity and no personality. In fact, ironically my ex-husband noticed this and said: “When women have children, they become something else called a ‘mother’ don’t they?”
He went to a competitive high school which meant all the girls who went there were highly intelligent and he saw them turn into ‘mothers’ and blurted this out one day.
So one could say many Japanese females go from being a ‘girl’ to being a ‘mother and they hardly ever become ‘adult women’.
But times change and many younger Japanese females have rebelled against fulfilling this banal destiny and are refusing to either marry or have children.
Low birthrate is a primary concern of the Japanese government and nothing will change until society changes and makes ‘motherhood’ a little more acceptable for women.
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July 20th, 2008 at 7:35 am
I can somewhat agree with this. Especially Brice: My mother has said the EXACT same things before. If it’s 99%: Wait, what happened to the other 1%? Why isn’t it 100%? Not good enough.
And when it IS 100% [rarely though in this day and age]: How many others got 100%? Is that it? Are you the top mark?
I haven’t actually quite faced this kind of depression, although I have completely given up talking to my parents. My friends don’t actually get it, and I’ve basically just learnt to control it myself. I know the cause of my depression, but it is actually painful that I can’t do too much about it. I want to solve it, but I can’t, if that makes any sense. And the depression usually comes back before, during and after every move. And then it attacks every now and again, just when I’m alone, or doing something and suddenly an image of my mates pops in. It’s almost unbearable, and everytime I wish that I could just be a normal kid with a normal lifestyle, ignorant as I would have been.
Another thing with the therapy is that in Chinese culture, it’s such a taboo thing. Like you’d only go to a psychologist if you were insane, or round the bend. Living in Bellvue, or in Malaysia as we call it, ‘Tanjong Rambutan’. And the thing is, I wouldn’t mind going to a therapist [if they would be of any help] but it doesn’t help that I would be labelled as a nut after that.
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July 21st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Being an Asian most comments on this thread really hit a chord. mmmmmm, I relate to ALL the things that you’ve said. I took the science/math route in university (well, partly I DID enjoy them) but it took me years to discover that I’m much more of a social science/humanity kinda person. And it took me years to remember why I took a route that’s unsuitable for me: My parents moved to Canada when I was a young teenager and I was uncomfortable with English then, studying something that does not demand a high standard of English skills seem an obvious choice. Also there’s the factor of prestige come into play: in most universities, science or business related subjects tend to be the hardest to get in. Getting into those faculties is a way to prove that you’re better than others. Most Asian kids I know choose the same route for more or less the same reasons.
Also very true about the 1% never-good-enough and guilt trip. Chinese people also have very interesting understanding of certain family concepts such as:
Love = I do what I think is the good for you (and you’re obliged to be happy about whatever being imposed on you)
Respect = Always obey your parents/older members in the family (i.e. being a “yes” person)
If you’re an Asian kid and can’t distinguish the difference between the Asian and western kinds of “love” and “respect”, you are bound to face lots of conflicts in the family.
I remember a conversation/interrogation between my Chinese parents and my European then-bf: (translation provided)
Mom: why did you choose a Chinese girl? (translation: falling in love MUST have a reason)
BF: er… it just happened. (translation: falling in love requires justification?!)
Mom: how come you’re not living close to your mom? Does she not miss you? (translation: love means “being together”… physically)
BF: Well, she respects me and wants the best for me. It makes her happy that I am here on my own doing what is important to me, even though she misses me.
My mom was totally confused at that point by his answer. Try replacing the Chinese “love” (being together) and “respect” (Chinese parents never have to “respect” their children), and you can understand way.
BTW, I was laughing out loud in my head when that conversation took place.
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July 22nd, 2008 at 7:56 pm
@connie1: Haha I am so glad you agree with me. I am just so glad I came to Canada when I was young enough to take my English to a high level. As my English got better I just started to see that I really loved language so much more that I will choose it even though I get easy 90s in math and science. Plus business and economics and crap eventually require you to write amazing english essays or u cant even pass… so yah in the end we reli do need english no matter what.
Haha the guilt trip is classic! My parents literally blackmailed me like that for about 2 years trying to make me move back to China with them…Which I eventually gave into…but in less than 4 months I got so tired of it all that I ran away. Now bak in canada… LOL
haha wow at least u brought your boyfriend home… I don’t even plan to get a boyfriend…and even if I do, I am not taking him home LOL.
i noe i always say asian parent+TCK child DONOT MIX! why? because if they think love=being together, basically that means we TCKs don’t love anyone! cuz we come and leave so quickly! Jesus christ.
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July 27th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Japan and Korea have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Suicide number per 100 000 population among OECD countries, year 2004 or latest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide
Suicide is the fourth cause of death in South Korea. A government report released at the end of 2006 stated that South Korea’s suicide rate was the highest among the members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) in 2005. The report highlighted that the high suicide rate is a reflection of changing and conflicting gender roles, economic hardship and domestic violence. In 2005, 26.1 out of every 100,000 South Koreans committed suicide, a dramatic increase from 11.8 people in 1995.
http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?at_code=390145
1 Flag of Lithuania Lithuania 70.1 14.0 40.2 2004
2 Flag of Belarus Belarus 63.3 10.3 35.1 2003
3 Flag of Russia Russia 61.6 10.7 34.3 2004
4 Flag of Kazakhstan Kazakhstan 51.0 8.9 29.2 2003
5 Flag of Hungary Hungary 44.9 12.0 27.7 2003
6 Flag of Guyana Guyana 42.5 12.1 27.2 2003
7 Flag of South Korea South Korea[20][21] N/A N/A 26.1 2005
8 Flag of Slovenia Slovenia 37.9 13.9 25.6 2004
9 Flag of Latvia Latvia 42.9 8.5 24.3 2004
10 Flag of Japan Japan 35.6 12.8 24.0 2004
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July 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Something I find shocking:
“Dr. Daniel Fisher, an American psychiatrist, recently visited South Korea at the invitation of the National Human Rights Commission. His observations gleaned from the trip, which he included on his Web site, are telling: “South Korea is still operating the type of institution-based system seen in the U.S. 40 years ago,” he wrote. According to Fisher, people labeled with mental illness in South Korea are treated as an extreme underclass.
He visited Yongin Hospital on the outskirts of Seoul and was shocked by what he saw. The model of psychiatry practiced in South Korea reflects the hierarchy of Confucianism, essentially meaning that the father has the power to admit members of his family as he sees fit — one wife was admitted for two months for changing her religion; one young man was in for a year for yelling at his father.”
At a public rally to mourn one of these victims and to protest the pressure-cooker conditions forced upon them in high school, 400 students and supporters cheered one student’s speech: “We are not studying machines. We are just teenagers.”
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/158160.html
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July 28th, 2008 at 6:35 am
I am actually shocked that people can still do that. Especially in Korea, I did not imagine the situation to be so stringent and traditional as that. =/
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July 28th, 2008 at 7:01 am
not too shocked…but tat’s depressing…SIGH
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July 28th, 2008 at 9:57 am
If you had to commute on this everyday you’d want to die too.
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July 28th, 2008 at 10:44 am
OMG. @_@
LOL
watch this video guys.
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July 28th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
this makes me wonder if all these people were made out of play doh
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September 16th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Wow, it’s a bigger problem than I thought for college students.
- A 2003 PSU Health Services student survey found that 42% of students said they were depressed at least once during the past year and 10% reported seriously considering suicide.
-At the university counseling center, approximately 67% of students showed symptoms of depression, according to recently collected data from intake forms on which students rank their reasons for seeking counseling.
- Counseling centers shows that 85% of colleges report an increase during the past five years in students with severe psychological problems.
“The majority of our student visits to the counseling office result from relationship issues,” Guerrero notes. “Students are trying to figure out where they fit in socially in the new college environment.”
Unrealistic expectations of students and their parents can also lead to depression. “I think this emphasis on self-perfection that our society has really contributes to depression in college students,” says Morson. “Many students have an ‘all-or-nothing’ mentality, not only about academics but also physical attractiveness and wealth,” he adds. Such perfectionistic thinking, coupled with high expectations from parents, adds to the stress of college life.
Guerrero believes separation from family for the first time can contribute to depression for many students. Morson agrees: “Transitioning from home environment to college life—and for international students, from home country—creates stress and anxiety that can result in depression.”
According to Guerrero, at Bentley College, where approximately 10% of the students are from outside the United States, the transition from home to college is especially stressful and “culture shock” may contribute to depression. “International students have different stresses—they may have difficulties with American food, the climate, religion, politics, and society. These cultural differences, in combination with being so very far from their home and family, can lead to depression,” she says. Guerrero adds that multiethnic American students may have to confront similar challenges if they attend an institution with a primarily Caucasian population. “Having a campus multicultural center for supporting multiethnic students may be pivotal for their success,” she notes.
Read the full thing here. Very interesting: http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/swsept2006p17.shtml
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September 17th, 2008 at 1:40 am
Note: I think this chart also reflects how permissible suicides are. In Japan there’s much less stigma than elsewhere regarding suicides so a family is much more likely to report a suicide as a suicide than in some countries where suicide is considered very shameful or the prevalent religion forbids it, i.e. you can’t be buried in consecrated grounds if you kill yourself, etc.
Buddhist burials are the most common in Japan regardless of the real religion of the person - and Buddhism doesn’t discriminate against people who have committed suicide.
Remember there are only 1% or so Christians in Japan.
The same goes for statistics of things like rape or theft. In some countries they are more reported than in other countries.
For example a lot of petty theft is reported in Japan and New Zealand versus other countries where there is MORE theft like for example Spain - but one has to understand that theft isn’t always reported in Spain as it is very common and accepted as a part of life here.
I think though that these studies do indicate that there is a general problem in the world regarding depression due to high expectations from parents, peer problems and moving to a new environment.
The fact that we’re always pressured into being ‘positive’ and to repress any sad feelings or feelings that we can’t handle a situation exacerbate this problem.
Wouldn’t it be nicer if we could just talk about our problems to friends instead of having to pay a therapist because friends don’t want to listen and want only to make small talk with you?
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November 1st, 2008 (3 weeks ago) at 5:35 pm
^^^^^ AGREES WITH ABOVE (Ayako, nonetheless)^^^^^^
That just doesn’t happen enough in today’s society.
Then you layer the cake with being TCK, and the whole thing just tips over.
Personally, I think this is where psychology fails. It’s hard enough for psychology to understand the individual, yet alone the cultural. We still treat culture as though it were some sort of disease, which should be ignored unless spoken to.
I’ve even talked to those Humanistic Psychologists who are on the fringes of psychology, and they can’t even imagine how to approach this.
Then we have soldiers coming back from Iraq who suffer not only PTSD, but culture shock/re-entry shock, and it makes me wonder if this really is some sort of disease?
The support out there for the TCK community just doesn’t exist. It’s a miracle this forum is even here.
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November 8th, 2008 (2 weeks ago) at 4:45 pm
One thing we must remember when looking at the statistics in regards suicide and depression is that we do not have to become one of them. If we are determined and are willing to take the time to either get help or help ourselves we can learn to deal with even the most difficult and disturbing experiences in life.
I hear so often on TV and radio that because someone has gone through a difficult life experience that they will be scarred for life. This is only true if that person does not deal with the issue correctly and with the right help they can come to terms with the experience and have it in fact strengthen their character. If they let that experience overpower them and dwell on it continually then in their life, all the focus is on the negative aspects of that experience.
The people best able to help others going through difficult times are those who have been through those same difficulties themselves and are therefore know what others are going through.
Difficult times come to us all but learning to cope with them and with the feelings that come can sometimes be a matter of life and death.
Choose life and not death and when you come through those difficult times you are prepared for dealing with not just your difficult times but the difficult times of others also. If we allow those circumstances to fill us with bitterness, hatred, fear or anything else unhealthy to our mental and bodily health then we may well continue down the path to our own distruction.
Choose life and your strength can be there to help others with less strength than you. Persevere through and even if you feel you do not have strength to cope, get help from others. If you are religious pray. You are not a failure if you feel you need a “crutch” (by this I mean help from someone else) after all, with a crutch you can stand despite the pain and the crutch allow the wounds to heal when you cannot bear the weight yourself.
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